Friday, 2012-10-12

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dregadmoo15:57
dregadPaul_46 still awake ?15:58
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Paul_46moo16:10
dregadhey16:10
Paul_46lo16:10
Paul_46Microsoft is taking the rare step of suing Google directly for something, tacking it onto a lawsuit against Motorola Mobility over Google Maps.16:11
Paul_46ohhh16:11
Paul_46MS vs google :P16:11
dregadhmm nice16:11
dregadafter Apple vs Samsung16:11
dregadand16:11
Paul_46If Google is found guilty over Google Maps, it may have to either pull Android phones using the Maps or pull the app off its partners' smartphones.16:11
dregadOracle vs rest of the world ;)16:11
Paul_46applve vs samsung is still going on :)16:12
dregadif these companies spent less on lawsuits, we'd have cheaper and better products16:12
Paul_46well it is getting a bit silly16:13
dregada *bit* ? :P16:13
Paul_46:)16:13
Paul_46well16:13
Paul_46it's like a game16:13
Paul_46"I have 50 20 year old patents before mobiles existed"16:13
Paul_46i'm gonna find reasons why my patents infringe on your mobile16:13
Paul_46and if my 50 patents don't infringe16:14
Paul_46i'll go buy some other companies patent portfolio16:14
Paul_46and evalute if they infringe :016:14
dregadit's all WIPO's fault ;)16:15
Paul_46it is a hard one though16:15
Paul_46not quite sure how they'll get out of it :)16:16
Paul_46although I do think the samsung+apple judge had best idea16:18
Paul_46limit them to 100 hours or whatever it was ;p16:18
Paul_46anyway16:21
Paul_46what do we do with our next branches16:22
dhx1Paul_46, hey, sorry I've missed you16:22
Paul_46;/16:22
dhx1... as in, missed your conversations haha :)16:22
dhx1wait... this isn't getting better...16:22
* Paul_46 ponders16:23
dhx1haha16:23
dhx1I had a peek at your 2.0 branch16:23
Paul_46i'm almost done adding exception classes ;p16:23
dhx1is it similar to 'next'?16:23
Paul_46'similar'16:23
Paul_46i think we need fewer exceptions16:24
Paul_46*still think16:24
Paul_46i'm trying to get to point where phpdoc/spelling/code analysis type tools i run dont show lots of error16:25
dhx1we need enough exceptions that you can catch specific types of exceptions higher up without overlap/ambiquity16:25
* Paul_46 nods16:26
Paul_46what i mean is there's some cases where we should have 116:26
Paul_46e.g.16:26
Paul_46if we have an php_extension_ldap_not_found and a phpextension_curl_not_found16:26
Paul_46should have a PHPExtensionNotFound exception that covers both16:27
dhx1yes16:28
dregadnow that the 2 of you are chatting, you are forbidden to quit until you agree on what to keep, next or 2.0 ;-)16:30
dhx1haha16:32
dhx1I'm actually going to say that we should manually merge in small chunks of functionality to the 'master' branch once we agree on approaches16:33
Paul_46i think we should aim for a mantis 2.0 beta for end of month16:33
Paul_46:)16:33
dhx1it's not really 2.0 though16:33
dhx1well... it kind of is16:33
Paul_46the 2.0 reflects the fact we'll add a mobile interface16:33
Paul_46and ideally a new webservice api16:34
dhx1but it doesn't offer anything to users afaik16:34
Paul_46and from practical purposes that  the db layer changed so plugins are likely [will] need updating16:35
dhx1yes, and error_api died16:35
Paul_46we should go through the commits to master since we started work on next/2.x/whatever16:36
Paul_46and work out what makes sense to port16:36
dhx1we will need to ensure that translatewiki is all setup to work with the new branch as well16:36
Paul_46as whilst most commits have been fine, some have been quite shocking16:36
Paul_46and should be reverted imo16:36
dhx1before any alpha/beta version is released16:36
Paul_46[09:06.30] <Paul_46> you stopped coming in mantis irc channels?16:36
Paul_46[09:06.43] <siebrand> apparently...16:36
Paul_46[09:06.54] <siebrand> Must have gotten out of my channel list..16:36
Paul_46[09:07.21] <siebrand> I'm not using the product anymore, so less interest… Also very little time lately… My work at Wikipediais all consuming.16:36
Paul_46[09:07.36] <Paul_46> when did you stop using it?16:36
Paul_46[09:07.59] <siebrand> 18 months or so ago.16:36
Paul_46[09:08.16] <Paul_46> you've still done translation commits tohugh16:37
Paul_46[09:08.23] <siebrand> of course.16:37
Paul_46[09:08.40] <siebrand> but I'm not really invested in the code base anymore.16:37
Paul_46[09:09.08] <siebrand> I know there's some i18n stuff that should be done for 1.3, but I'm not sure if 1.3 is "real" at themoment.16:37
Paul_46(FYI)16:37
dhx1yes I know, I had a long chat a few months ago16:37
dhx1it's our responsibility to do the i18n work for MantisBT16:37
Paul_46in english16:38
dhx1we have to write all the code for TranslateWiki to support new versions of MantisBT16:38
dhx1... noting there are numerous open source reference implementations that can be copied (more or less)16:39
dregadPaul_46: the next/2.0 version needs to bring some incentive for users to upgrade16:39
dregadotherwise it will just be an exercise of programming16:40
dregadand people will stay on 1.216:40
dhx1yep16:40
* Paul_46 nods16:41
Paul_46well if we put a mobile web interface in the box16:41
Paul_46and replace the nusoap layer with a webservice layer supporting more then just soap16:42
Paul_46as well as trying to modernize some of the code16:42
Paul_46and fixing the pgsql/mssql support that's currently broken16:42
Paul_46one's starting to get16:42
Paul_46a) some incentives to update16:43
Paul_46b) a base for future releases16:43
dregadmobile web, ok maybe for a limited number of ppl16:43
dregadnusoap, idem16:43
Paul_46idem?16:43
dregadmodern code, users don't give a shit16:43
dregadidem = same16:43
dregadthat's latin16:43
Paul_46ahh16:43
dregadpgsql/mssql should be fixed with adodb 5.1816:44
Paul_46nah16:44
Paul_46the current layer is broken in various ways16:44
dregadmostly yes16:44
dregadit's not perfect, but it works16:44
dregadand the fact that you're breaking all plugins is a show stopper for a lot of ppl16:45
Paul_46i'd port a bunch of plugins tbh16:45
Paul_46trying to fix pgsql/mssql in 1.2 is just unfair to users tbh16:45
Paul_46we should admit its broken16:46
Paul_46get a schema that works in pgsql/mssql that we are happy with16:46
Paul_46and start from scratch with pgsq/mssql16:46
Paul_46[the only mantis  instances I run use mssql and i'm saying this]16:47
dregadfunny, today while investigating an issue with John's snippet plugin, I stumbled upon this blog post http://noswap.com/blog/on-the-inelegance-of-php/16:48
Paul_46you've even done 'fixes' for mssql that would break my setup of mssql+mantis at work to fix issues in mssql16:48
dregadlol16:49
dregadI don't recall ever making fixes for mssql16:49
dregadpgsql yes16:49
jreesedregad: foreshadowing on the order of a few years, eh? :P16:49
Paul_46you did one other week iirc16:49
dregadjreese - exactly16:49
dregadPaul_46 if you're referring to http://www.mantisbt.org/bugs/view.php?id=14774 i just applied a pull request from a user16:51
Paul_46I want to get back to the point where we have a tested build of mantisbt with mssql I can run out of box at work16:51
Paul_46having concluded two years ago that the adodb layer is broken16:52
Paul_46that means i want a release of 'next'/'2.0x'/whatever you want to call it between now and december16:52
Paul_46at least in alpha form for that db layer16:52
dregadi'm all for that16:53
Paul_46now to be fair, i'll probably just make that 'alpha' form ==> automated build of master-2.0.x branch for my work purposes16:53
dregadbut don't expect users to come running to the new version16:53
* Paul_46 nods16:54
Paul_46in any case though, we are being unfair to users atm16:55
dregadin what way ?16:55
Paul_46well, it's always been our policy not to add new features into 1.216:55
Paul_46[a released branch]16:56
Paul_46atm, we seem to be doing that16:56
dregadwe've been through this several times already16:56
dregadand you know exactly why this is happening16:56
Paul_46well it's just generating work for us16:56
dregadfor me, you mean16:57
dregaddouble commits for each change16:57
Paul_46well16:57
dregadmakes my stats at ohloh look good ;)16:57
Paul_46could need to commit those to 2.x too16:57
dregadi'm not gonna do that until a decision's been taken16:58
Paul_46i need to go through all commits to 1.2 and 1.316:58
Paul_46and send a mail about each one about forward porting16:58
dregadno you dont16:58
dregadonly 1.316:58
Paul_46and a mail to list about each one i think needs reverting16:58
Paul_46:)16:58
Paul_46no - as there's stuff that went into 1.2 but not 1.316:58
dregadnot by me16:58
Paul_46and then we released the 1.2 stuff to users16:58
Paul_46really smart :)16:58
dregadwell16:59
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dregadyou really need to change your bot's name :P17:00
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dregadtime for bed17:05
dregadremember, Paul_46 you are not allowed to leave this chat until you've agreed with dhx1 on which branch to keep ;)17:06
Paul_46that's easy17:06
Paul_46whichever is less work17:07
dregadi'll check the log transcript tomorrow morning to find out the answer then ;)17:07
dregadgood night17:07
dhx1cya17:08
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Paul_46so17:09
GitHub23[mantisbt] grangeway pushed 1 new commit to master-2.0.x: http://git.io/Uv0UXQ17:11
GitHub23[mantisbt/master-2.0.x] Additional Exceptions - Paul Richards17:11
Paul_46dhx1: need sleep soon17:12
dhx1Paul_46, ok17:12
Paul_46but yea17:14
Paul_46what is the plan? :P17:14
dhx1ummm17:16
dhx1we go through both 'next' and 'master-2.0.x' together17:17
dhx1and redo changes we think are worthwhile to keep17:17
dhx1(committing to the current master branch)17:17
dhx1perhaps...?17:17
Paul_46there's stuff in the current master branch I dont think we should keep17:17
dhx1but then again, I kind of reached the point with database work where I decided that the whole schema needs reworking17:18
dhx1transactional support, constraints, views, etc...17:18
Paul_46the other option would be to conclude that mantis is 'dead'17:18
dhx1Paul_46, make a list17:18
Paul_46there's been around ~300 commits to master-2.0.x since we branched it17:21
dhx1400 to next ;)17:21
Paul_46tbh probably the quickest thing to do would be to set github back to where we branched out17:23
Paul_46get a list of diff's for each branch17:23
Paul_46and go through them 1 at a time17:23
dhx1that's what I just said :P17:23
Paul_46i mean17:24
Paul_46master as well17:24
dhx1master is what it is17:24
dhx1we can't really decide to just drop it now17:24
dhx1we could revert certain commits/functionality but that is still going to be quite problematic17:24
dhx1it's probably best to just rewrite on top of master17:24
Paul_46why couldn't we dorop it?17:24
dhx1given how much code will churn anyway (error_api, lang_api, database_api, etc)17:25
Paul_46that's gonna break more17:25
Paul_46it doesn't help that some people have been doing whitespace commits recently in master17:27
GitHub177[mantisbt] grangeway pushed 1 new commit to master-2.0.x: http://git.io/SkI2Wg17:32
GitHub177[mantisbt/master-2.0.x] The warning message displayed by user_get_field() when called with user - Paul Richards17:32
GitHub38[mantisbt] grangeway pushed 1 new commit to master-2.0.x: http://git.io/EHhigg17:34
GitHub38[mantisbt/master-2.0.x] Fix comment - Paul Richards17:34
Paul_46https://github.com/mantisbt/mantisbt/commit/34e71865bf17763f22d6787e0a832ae6eec405e617:37
Paul_46dhx1: can't even cherry pick that without a merge conflict17:37
Paul_46dhx1: is it just git push in this case ;/17:39
GitHub52[mantisbt] grangeway pushed 1 new commit to master-2.0.x: http://git.io/KpZUpg17:41
GitHub52[mantisbt/master-2.0.x] Change Log must consistently rely on fixed_in_version - Paul Richards17:41
GitHub59[mantisbt] grangeway pushed 1 new commit to master-2.0.x: http://git.io/LZNJ6w17:51
GitHub59[mantisbt/master-2.0.x] ReAuthor 791fbd93d09b4b5b3f272413e5396d280735dc51 - Paul Richards17:51
Paul_46nn17:53
Paul_46dhx: btw, the changes aren't mergeable17:53
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